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Author Topic: Securing Your Seed Phrase with Washers  (Read 8073 times)
LoyceV
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April 11, 2025, 04:33:21 PM
 #421

Size they are using for washers is very similar to coin shape
It could be fun to do this on an actual coin.

Quote
One downside of this strategy can be for people with bad eyesight, but it's easy to use glasses or magnifying glass.
As a kid, I used to have a magnifying glass. Nowadays I get my phone to zoom in for the smallest things. How many people are going to make that mistake? I prefer to keep my fonts large enough to read.

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dkbit98
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April 11, 2025, 05:02:06 PM
 #422

It could be fun to do this on an actual coin.
I would not experiment with that, especially with modern coins that are mostly made from cheaper metal alloys.
Older coins could be better, but stainless steel or titanium washers are cheaper for sure.

As a kid, I used to have a magnifying glass. Nowadays I get my phone to zoom in for the smallest things. How many people are going to make that mistake? I prefer to keep my fonts large enough to read.
Yeah good point, I forgot about modern phones that also have zoom feature, and ,ore expensive phones usually have better cameras and zoom.
That being said, another crazy extreme version of this would be to write seed words on microscopic level, but than you need to have a microscope.  Cheesy

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LoyceV
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April 12, 2025, 07:18:18 AM
Last edit: April 12, 2025, 09:02:21 AM by LoyceV
 #423

I would not experiment with that, especially with modern coins that are mostly made from cheaper metal alloys.
I wouldn't worry about the melting point much, but it's just not very practical. It's too small, and using fiat coins to store real money doesn't feel right Wink This reminds me of collectibles: some people still hold the only private key that can access 50 BTC on a tiny piece of paper inside a collectible coin. There's no backup, and it's as fragile as it gets.

¡uʍop ǝpᴉsdn pɐǝɥ ɹnoʎ ɥʇᴉʍ ʎuunɟ ʞool no⅄
satscraper
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April 12, 2025, 08:59:55 AM
Merited by LoyceV (12)
 #424

I like binary encoding, thus,  just came up with an idea for encoding SEED words using the 12-position external tooth washer.




We can use a 12-position washer to encode a word from our SEED phrase in binary format. 11 positions give us exactly the right number of bits to represent a full 11-bit binary value, which aligns perfectly with any of  2048 words from  BIP-39 wordlist. Each of those 11 positions around the washer can represent "1" or a"0" depending on whether a tooth is present at that position or not.

The 12th position  which would have a tooth of half length or any distinct marking would serve as a start marker to help with decoding.

Seems to be easy implemented.

How about this?


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LoyceV
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April 12, 2025, 09:13:59 AM
 #425

We can use a 12-position washer to encode a word from our SEED phrase in binary format. 11 positions give us exactly the right number of bits to represent a full 11-bit binary value, which aligns perfectly with any of  2048 words from  BIP-39 wordlist. Each of those 11 positions around the washer can represent "1" or a"0" depending on whether a tooth is present at that position or not.
This looks like something that can be used for hiding in plain sight: throw 50 of those washers in a drawer with other loose bolts, nuts, screws and washers, and nobody is ever going to suspect them. The main risk will be forgetting about them, and using them for some construction 30 years in the future.
If you use it like this, you'll need to add some numbering to the washers. And you'll need to carefully verify you used the correct binary values for your seed words.

Quote
The 12th position  which would have a tooth of half length or any distinct marking would serve as a start marker to help with decoding.
I'd bend them instead of cutting them.

¡uʍop ǝpᴉsdn pɐǝɥ ɹnoʎ ɥʇᴉʍ ʎuunɟ ʞool no⅄
satscraper
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April 12, 2025, 09:33:29 AM
Last edit: April 12, 2025, 09:50:36 AM by satscraper
 #426


Quote
The 12th position  which would have a tooth of half length or any distinct marking would serve as a start marker to help with decoding.
I'd bend them instead of cutting them.

Yeah  bending would definitely be much easier than cutting, but using bending for  full set of 12 or 24 washers would make the whole setup bulkier. That, in turn, would require a larger container to hold the whole stuff. Nevertheless bent tooth  is also a good starting mark.

I'm going to get  12-external-tooth washers to bring this idea to life. Since my SEED is 24 words long I’ll need to buy 24 washers in total.

If you use it like this, you'll need to add some numbering to the washers. And you'll need to carefully verify you used the correct binary values for your seed words.

Numbering could  be applied to the planar surface of the washers for the better visibility

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fillippone (OP)
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April 13, 2025, 07:10:14 AM
 #427

The main risk about this setup is always the same: complexity.
Will you be able to remember, in 20, 30 or 50 years, how you encoded your binary code?
Will your sons, grandsons or whoever might need to read those washers Able to understand what they represent?

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